website with mixed languages

Hello,

Last few days I added some more pages to my website and I think I mess it up...

The problem I have is that a part of my site is in english language and one part in dutch language. Actually I like to splitt the site but I'm afraid that I will loose serps. The other problem is that I have three parts in this website:
 - info about me as developer (and also my company)
 - information with affiliation purpose (offering books and trainings)
 - open source scripts and information
I think about to change my main page to kind of portal, the base content will be in dutch language and other must me be a part with clear navigation for the english content. But is this clear enough to my international public? (actually this will an update of the current situation)

any advice what is the  best solution? translation of all text regarding the scripts is no option (too much work)
this is my current situation: http://www.finalwebsites.com/

My advise is not to split the languages in the same page.

Instead use two versions of the site for each language.

Check topsites greek and english version. There are also some modules in the one site that the other don't have, but this is ok.

I understand, but currently there are on the same domain. That will say I start with the current one and have language switch? or its better to have two domain names (2 index pages)?

Two domains can help with search engines, but be carefull not to mislead the visitors :)

That's what I think, there must be a link between both sites...

but there must also a link from the dutch site to several english pages and visa vi

and what about all the inbound links they are all to the current (dutch) main page?

I think I need first a clear main page in both languages (maybe with a search box since my website is very well indexed)...

Yes, but you should be carefull not to mislead the user.

what about internal links from my main page, I thought that these are very important for google and otrhers

Try to keep the same hierarchy you allready have, just split it to two sites with two different languages.

right but currently I have menu items in my main page about dutch and english pages. If I splitt these items in two languages some of them are gone from the main page

That's not a problem. I guess having in one page several languages is worst both for humans and search engines.

Until now it was not a problem for searchengines...

But, wouldn't having more than one page with the same content, even if in different languages risk a dup content penalty? Or are the search engines not that clever, yet?

No, the same content in two languages is not content duplication.

I don't think that a search engine can see that.

Even if they could, it would be a waste of resources to do so, plus it is not neccessery as having the same content is several languages is something good.

Cool, I didn't know that.

@YMC, what do you think about the (future) navigation of my website? how do you solve situations like this?

something else, I think I build a kind of portal page as a kind of second (english) main page, I have a lot of links to the url http://www.finalwebsites.com/snippets.php and I want to redirect this traffic to the new portal page. Is this OK for search engines?

Just created the english main page (the portal)

http://www.finalwebsites.com/php_portal.php (not everything is translated)
this page will become visible too in someone follow this link: http://www.finalwebsites.com/snippets.php

is this navigation clear enough for international and dutch visitors?

I've seen quite a few sites that offer multiple languages where English was not their native tongue. Sorry can't think of one off the top of my head to give you as an example.

Their homepages often first appeared in their native language. They had a list of flags, usually near the right top corner. Some included near the top of the page (above the fold) links like "View this site in English" and what I would guess was the same phrase in the other languages available. What I remember finding interesting was that many didn't change the language of their menus - the majority appearing only in English.

While visiting the English pages the flags were still displayed, usually along with an invitation to return to the site's native language.

While I think most folks will get the idea from the flags, I found it more inviting when the site offered additional languages in (sorry can't think of better expression) plain English.

I looked at the pages you are playing with. Looks great. I would put the language switch going both ways and maybe on the Dutch one use Dutch as the label. Are you planning on allowing folks to switch languages when they land on interior pages too?

Hope I've helped a little.

I admire you multi-lingual folks as I sit here knowing only a handful of German and Spanish words and two Russian words - Nyet and Das Vadanya (and probably spelt wrong too - lol).

yes at least at the main pages and the link pages and maybe the contact page.


Thanks YMC, what about the flag from great britain, is this clear for people from the US?

At least I have some main entries where I can splitt the site (the snippets page is mostly entered by not dutch speaking people) and the current main page is mostly entred by dutch people. I suggested the snippet link on almost every english language link page...(like here at webdigity)

I think there is a flag that is half british, half USA. Maybe this would be better

I'm using [en] for english and [nl] for dutch to make my site multi-lingual (working on it on www.moduhost.nl )

hm I did already a lot of research and created a system like this before: www.bergtoys.com this page is using the country code to select a default language.

I have to admit I was kinda miffed when the sites I visited used the English flag >:( ; but then I realized we are talking about the English language and although I don't know for fact; I would assume England is where English came from in the first place.  8)

I think the British flag works, but since the site is originating from Europe it would be even more appropriate in this case.

hello,

I changed the pages like I posted before:

dutch version: http://www.finalwebsites.com/

english version: http://www.finalwebsites.com/portal/

I think there is a clear entry to the english langauge pages if a not dutch speaking visitor will reach the main page. The menu is changed if the languages are switched.

Please tell what do you think, thanks!

That's much better, but maybe you should do it reverse.

I mean you should have the docroot for english and the portal/ for dutch (just an opinion)

I don't think that this is good, the dutch mainpage has TOP results in google, I don't want to loose them, maybe for later (if the portal page is PR5 too...)

Oh, I thought your traffic was for english searches.

In that case you are just fine :)

I have traffic for both languages, this why I splitted the sites...thanks ;)

Hi Olaf i have solved multilanguage problem in my CMS

http://trinityhome.org/~visionto/Home/index.php?front_id=1

login at:
http://trinityhome.org/~visionto/Users/index.php?front_id=9

hope this gives you an idea ...

I think you get this wrong, its not about how to create multi language websites but how to navigate them clear and easy.

But try it by yourself...check reply no. 26 of this thread.

ah, ok sorry

if this is of any help olaf, when im browsing multi lingual sites if i dont see a flag or something that represents english language i will quickly close the site anyway, and usually, around the top of the site, there is a (as i think nik mentioned earlier) a half usa flag/half britain flag.. and yes this is also a separate site for each language .. the way nik did thetopsites i really like, it was set to english for me soon as i got there, and a greek version is plainly clear with a greek flag :)

Ok but if you reach the site at www.finalwebsites.com you're able to navigate to the english version? (you will reach one of the other pages, I think)

yep. your flag is in plain view and easy to see (i like the big arrow)

this is a site i would not simply close because i cant read it :) but i am german anyway so wouldnt need english in your case

whats German got to do with his site? You got to lay off that bong dude! ;D

But I agree, the flag is very noticable and won't be missed by visitors I think.

his site is written in dutch which is very similair if not almost the same as german..

didn't know that... lol (a typical comment from a german)

You know he is right, Dutch and German are almost exactly the same. The same 26 letters are used, the only difference is the Umlaut in German... ;D You probably know Danish and Norwegian as well then, they are also almost exactly the same as Dutch and German  ;)

you say that because you know both languages, I'm sure that almost everyone in you new neighborhood won't understand you if you're speaking dutch to them...

I was jokeing  ;) I'm sure at least 99% of the Germans don't understand a word of the Dutch language.

i am somewhat fluent in german, and i know a good bit of dutch because of relatives :)

what are saying? I don't understand...

i dont know how else to phrase taht except..

I can understand, and interpret, most of the German language althought I can not speak it fluently.

I understand few phrases and words of the Deutch Language, and cannot speak a word of it.

Sorry I can't follow you...

Ik kan begrijpen en interpreteer, de meeste Duitse taal althought die ik hem vlot niet spreken kan.

Ik begrijp weinige zinsneden en woorden van de Deutch Taal en kan niet spreekt een woord daarvan.

??

are you using some translation software (bablefish)?

yeah i translated what i said straight into dutch for you, i take it that it didnt help eh?

hahaha dude I told you before: lay off that bong!