website layout legal questions

was wondering if someone might know a answer to this or might be able to point me in the right directions for this question.

if someone makes a website layout and give it to you, no copyright like GNU or what not in the code just a thing at the bottom saying copyright there name. as long as you keep there name there and leave the layout (images) to what it was are you able to change the html/php code around and use it how you want, but maintain the original layout?

i ask because we had a member of a community make a web page layout then we basically fired him from the community, but now since he made the layout is threatening to sue us if we don't take the site down.

i have been reading the GNU and few other copyright things, but get confused, then again legal stuff i think was made to be confusing

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I think it depends on how you get the layout, If he borrowd you the layout and this documented somewhere there could be an issue.

on the other site check if there is some evidence that he is still the owner....

does he get something in exchange for creating the layout? (traffic, bonus or money)

the last option you have is to create a new layout (some kind of contest, check the webdigity contests to do it right this way)

I am not a lawyer, but I do watch them on TV. Mom loves the court shows, like Judge Judy, and they can provide useful information.

I would think the whole issue here is whether or not he outright gave you the template or gave it to you with the expectation of some continuing benefit of his membership or payment. It would seem if it did go to court, that he would have to prove there was some sort of deal for compensation. In other words, why did he "give" it to you in the first place.

Let me give you a few things to consider...

1. Are you sure he actually owns the copyright? You might want to make sure that he didn't simply use one of the many free online templates, make a few changes (if any) and call it his own.

2. Are there any free or for sale templates that are similar that you could perhaps switch to? If you stop using the template, you can sever your ties with him completely.

3. If you paid him in any form for his work, it could be classified as "work for hire". With "work for hire", the customer almost always owns the copyright.

As to making changes to the existing template, rather than looking at GNU, look at the copyright laws regarding fair use and derivative works. I would find it very hard to believe that copyright law would prevent you from making changes but it might govern how much credit the original creator deserves. I have seen quite often copyright notices on websites "Based on a design by _______".

Personally, I would determine how difficult it would be for the community to redesign the site with another template. Sounds like it might be much better in the long run to simply cut all ties with this person.

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Michele great that you have found the right words

I wrote most of my reply before I realized yours made the same basic three points. Hopefully, together we've given dragon what he/she needs to make their decisions.

Great minds must truly think alike.

yeah i don't know, its possible that it could be a modified free one, but can be hard to actually find out.

we could get another one, a free layout might be ok, just would have to do something for the logo so would just have to come up with the funds for that.

he wasn't paid at all for his work. we were talking about making a site one day and he offered to make one for the community. when he created it he it was at the understanding that he wouldn't be paid for his work nor gain any special treatment. I know that at the discussion for it that it that it was mentioned that it would be considered a gift for the community, but verbal stuff just never seems to go over well in this stuff heh

where are some good links for looking for some free/pay layouts? also going to bring it up with the group about maybe starting a contest. seem some good stuff come out of there hehe

Verbal stuff is binding. The key is whether or not other people heard of it. If he made the offer during a public meeting of some sort, I doubt he would have a strong argument for ownership. If the conversation only took place between the two of you it would come down to who is more credible in front of the judge. Are there any emails or other written communications that would indicate he did not expect payment?

The logo, I think would be a separate issue. Using a bit of common sense and knowing the law doesn't always follow that doctrine, why would anyone creating a logo for another entity expect to retain copyrights to that logo? It's not like you would sell the logo for monetary gains. Copyrights are meant to protect earnings. I'm not sure a logo would have any potential earnings attached to it; particularly if the logo included obvious references to your community.

If you are in the US, you might want to try calling the US Copyright office. I would ask the questions as if the actual work had not been done yet. i.e. If someone volunteers to make a logo for our community, who would own the copyrights. What has to be done for the community to ensure ownership. This might be a way to get some answers without going to the expense of going to a lawyer. I've spoken to several of the folks at the Copyright office and they have usually been quite helpful and informative.

there was one or two other people that did over hear the conversations, nothing was private.

i will give a look up for the US copyright office and see what i can find out. thanks for your advice. never actually thought of this issue but when someone threatens to sue kinda dont want to wait around to see if they will actually follow through with the threats and never know maybe this will help someone else down the road too hehe

I think people often throw out "I'm gonna sue" knowing that many folks will comply just to avoid the possibilities of losing. Problem is that many of those flinging that threat don't have a clue about what the law says either.

From what you have said it sounds like this whole thing is personal and not truly about copyrights or potential income. I think you should first find out where the law stands on this and then make decisions from there. I don't know what you mean when you say community, but that might bring in issues of "community ownership", "not-for profit issues" or have no impact.

Good luck and hopefully this will come out in your favor, whatever you wish for that to be.

yeah i dont know why i just kept saying community without saying what kinda of community, its just a gaming community. so making no money off it just something that just been growing heh

That's cool, I was beginning to wonder if you were in a cult or something. lol

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there was one or two other people that did over hear the conversations, nothing was private.

I think this is enough to ignore this bad person. BTW what do those folks think when they give a gift to someone? Is it something to count on later? An investment or something?

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